Frank Schaeffer is a writer and author of fiction and nonfiction.
I just watched your interview with Rachel Maddow and learned about Psalm 109:8 for the first time. Viewing this clip was my first exposure to the hard-core left. I had been a regular viewer of NBC, but left recently when I caught them in an outright lie where their bias overcame them. Needless to say, I am a right-wing, conservative, bible-toting, independent-thinking, American citizen. I had never heard of the Pray 109:8 campaign. I do find it over-the-edge, but if you take it at face value, one could say that you are simply praying Obama out of office. My Bible says that our leaders are ordained of God and that we should pray for them. I take this seriously and pray that President Obama will make wise decisions and that he will be convinced that abortion is wrong, etc. What is wrong with that?
Yes, its true, liberals can't take a joke. I guess that's because all of the evil bumper stickers they put on their cars and the constant threatening Bush-bashing for 8 years were no joke to them. Frankly, I'm surprised that liberals didn't assassinate Bush since there hatred of him was (and still is) viral.If Frank thinks that Psalm 109:8 is going to send people over the edge then what does he think about all of the violent movies coming out of Hollywood are doing? Why isn't he as concerned about that? Oh that's right, Hollywood is a leftest utopia where there is peace and love and so the movies they make don't matter and never meant to make anybody commit murder. Come on, its just entertainment folks. They are just joking.
I am a LEFT-wing, Democrat, bible-toting, independent-thinking, American citizen.Anonymous #2 sees a joke in this call to God to strike down a leader? That's a sick sense of humor.
How any of you come down firmly on one side without seeing how utterly ridiculous both parties have gotten is beyond me. I wish people in this country could THINK and understand the complexities of these issues instead of latching onto two minute sound-bites. Then again, I also wish people would THINK and take a minute to examine the objective foundations of their religious beliefs as well. As Descartes once said, “If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things.”
As a response to the anonymous who wrote earlier, there are other sections of the bible that encourage prayer for leaders that aren't textually associated with the desire for the death of political leaders. I think Shaeffer's right to emphasize this context. He isn't arguing that your interpretation of that verse is incorrect; rather that qouting it doesn't exclude the more fanatical intepretation that could lead towards viewing assassination as more than a viable option, but as an edict from God. In fact, when you realize that the bible encourages prayer for leaders without being written in conjunction with a desire for the death of a tyrant, then you it seems necessary to realize that qouting this text is malicious in nature. Here is another example of this kind of entailment, the religious have always admired the attempt to assassinate Hitler. Not just because of how evil Hitler was, but because the attempt came out of the church. How long will it take until someone decides that assassination is a viable option if we continue to equivocate Obama's policies to Hitler? I guarantee, in the mind of the person who deems such an action necessary, that part of it's justification will come from the fact that it is both an edict from God and as such out of the church. When we use false political rhetoric in such a hyperbolic way, we risk being interpreted wrong. The fact that some folks are actually buying into that false interpretation is where we should be concerned. That's Shaeffer's point and to say, "well this other interpretation is just as viable if not more" doesn't refute that concern.
Thanks Frank, for stepping up and speaking out. I share your outrage and the fear that someone (Like Timothy McVeigh) will think they hear God's voice telling them to become violent. I applaud your courage for publicly saying what many feel - that extreme fundamentalism in any religious group is dangerous. The analogy between extremists who call themselves Christian and extremists who claim to be Muslim is not a comparison that many Christians are willing to examine. This serious and must not be swept away by people who prefer to be anonymous. This needs to be confronted for what it is - 'hate speech' under the banner Evangelical Christianity. This hate campaign is a long way from the sermon on the mount. This IS a campaign, and campaigns can't run without money. Where is the money coming from and who is profiting from this? It can't just be a 'grass roots' movement. Time to follow the money.
God bless you, Frank for taking to the air waves in an effort to expose this crazy talk! As a Christian, I feel a renewed sense of hope that someday, Christianity will actually be affliated with and associated with the true teachings of Christ. Keep up the good work!
You folks are amazing, you're seeing everything through your liberal colored glasses. This is SO overblown it's ridiculous, and your apparence on Rachel's show was so over the top.She tacked on Ps. 109:9, that isn't being included by the folks doing this. The verse quoted says nothing about death, just leaving office. AND, the verse is a prayer to God for action, it in no way implies personal action against the leader.You're stretching WAY beyond what's here, again to line up with your predetermined political beliefes. You don't hate the Christian "extremists" (fundamentalists) because of this verse, you hate them because ther are pro-life and preaching against gays, which flies in the face of liberalism.What really amazes me is how all you libs are too PC to call an Islamic terrorist exactly what he is, an Islamic terrorist, but would rather paint the Christians as the violent extremists. What a lie, and what a perversion of truth. Speak truth, stop slanting your viewpoint to match your political goals.BTW, gays don't go to hell because they're gay... anyone that goes to hell goes there for only one reason - because they don't have Jesus Christ. Plain. Simple.Do you have Christ? I won't judge but all of the hate you spew in your blogs would certainly give one pause....
Frank, it's the same ole same ole: The Christian Right is neither, nor.
Frank, I can't thank you enough for having the courage to come out and speak the truth. Just read you're article about how you're now a liberal because you're a conservative. I think if more folks were honest, if more people could be a little introspective, we'd be much better off.
Frank, Thanks for your comments and your stand. Without you trying to sell your books I would have never known of your father Francis Schaeffer or been able to watch some of his terrific sermons on Youtube. Since Maddow would be against your father I know he must be on the side of goodness. You on the other hand seem to have a need to be accepted by the likes of these people who hate everything your father stood for. To bad you turned out to be such a disgrace.
Frank, I have not heard from you since you spoke in the early 90's at a fund-raiser for the Crisis Pregnancy Center in Gainesville, FL,in which you spoke very passionately for protecting the precious lives of the unborn. As I remember, you virtually called your dad a prophet.What happened since then? Why have you turned against everything your father supported? I read many of his books in the 70's, and his trilogy (Escape from Reason, The God Who is There, & He is There and He is Not Silent)is one of the reasons I am still a Christian today. It really breaks my heart hearing you talk like this. I'm sure you have been hurt by other Christians. We all have. We are imperfect people, loved and forgiven by a perfect God.All I can say is: "If MY people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves and pray, and seek my face, and turn away from THEIR wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and forgive their sins, and heal their land."As Christians, we must "do away with the pointing of the finger." look in the mirror, and pray "Search me, and see if there be any wicked way in ME," and then turn away from it.We don't need to attack each other, or unbelievers, but reach out in love and compassion and mercy, while at the same time, life righteous lives in the middle of an unrighteous world.
Frank is just harping on something because everybody isn't an Obama groupie like he is. What really makes me mad is that everything that SOME people do he makes it seem like everybody is doing it. I'm the 2nd anonymous and I personally pray each day for Obama even though I don't like him as president. I know that God has ordained him to be president and I'm good with that. I'm firmly on the right and believe in the Bible. According to Frank, that makes me dangerous. Frank has a voice and power to make a real difference where it counts, like addressing voilence in our media. But instead he cozy's up to it so he can make a big stink about a very marginal and small percentage of the population and claim that it is all Christians who believe in the Bible. He's just like somebody once said "you strain out gnats and swallow camels". I do think the bumper sticker is a joke and people ought to just forget about it. I don't have a sick sense of humor, I don't think its funny but obviously some people do think its funny. I know I practiced forgetting about all the sick jokes about Bush for 8 years. Now its your turn to grow up.
To the poster above: What, exactly, do you believe about the bible? Do you have any objective intellectual reasons for believing those things? Or--do you blindly accept that an ancient bunch of manuscripts transcribed and put together by a bunch of fallible men (years after the events they purport to record) is the word of god? Think about that question for a minute. Are you any different than the Muslim who is following the Koran? How, objectively speaking, is the bible any more reliable a source for the word of god than the Koran? Those who lack critical thinking skills can be VERY dangerous. Someone needs to speak out against those who are willing to destroy our country because they see it as their calling from god.
Thank you Frank for speaking out as you do. As for those who use God and the Bible to keep going with the hatred, shame on you. Perhaps a little read of the book of Revelation might be good for a few of you and what God said about the churches that thought they were following God and His teachings! Did Jesus Christ see a difference between Liberals and Conservatives or were they all His people? Did He pray to His Father for harm to come to others? Using God as an excuse to justify your actions and hatefulness is just dead wrong and is taking away from the word of God. If Jesus Himself came back to earth today, some of you would be hateful to Him because you would deem him an evil Socialist for wanting to take care of his neighbors, the sick, the weak, the young and old. We need more people like Frank Schaeffer to speak up no matter what platform he needs to use. Seems to me Jesus did the same thing.
The the anonymous poster who questions my beliefs My beliefs are mine and not to be questioned, riduculed or outlawed. That's what it means to be an American Christian and not an Islamic fanatic who chops heads off of "infidels". Until you can find American Christians doing that then you are a liar and a rabble rouser and you are no better than the Taliban you accuse others of being. So take that and stick it in you critical thinking cap.
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